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Post by marysunshine on Jul 22, 2005 17:33:02 GMT 10
Another one. Apparently men are more prone to creating gas than women. Honesty is what I seek. If I believed that I would give you a serious reply. As I have in other threads.. but you're just playing with us. We're like these funny little hormonal XXs to you, to tweak and amuse yourself with. Be honest.
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babooshka
New Member
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Post by babooshka on Jul 22, 2005 17:42:35 GMT 10
Ok I'll start. where is your female Beethoven? That's not fair in that Beethoven was composing in an era where women were not encouraged to compose music etc. Therefore you can only make comparisons of men versus women in the past 40 years at best, wherein women have at least had some form of encouragement to be musically inclined. And given that music of the past 40 years is utterly different to music 200 years ago, the comparison is not apt. Perhaps asking which females were of the same ability as Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards or Dylan your argument would have some more weight.
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 17:50:32 GMT 10
There's a clear distinction between the two definitions but the feeling is the same no matter how you word it. You do, after all, put in the hard yakka and the baby comes out of your body and was nourished by your body. It's like the feeling you have when you take pride in something you have created x 100. Margaret Meade (I think) theorised that is one reason why women have been historically less productive than men. One, that giving birth is so satisfying in that sense and because child rearing is so time consuming. You are getting warm as to the reason. Go back to the Cro Magnon days and think on the division of tasks. It all started there really. We will leave the monkeys out of it for the sake of peace. Women lack the desire that is why they don't create or design as much. Nature is gradually releasing the reins though, hence females like 4213 who do have the desire I feel. Meanwhile nature will continue it's course towards Androgeny, but separation will be around for a long time yet. Where better could you ask this question Meg than on a predominately female forum? It is fun to see the truth being evaded. Do women lack the courage to be honest?
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 17:52:55 GMT 10
Ok I'll start. where is your female Beethoven? That's not fair in that Beethoven was composing in an era where women were not encouraged to compose music etc. Therefore you can only make comparisons of men versus women in the past 40 years at best, wherein women have at least had some form of encouragement to be musically inclined. And given that music of the past 40 years is utterly different to music 200 years ago, the comparison is not apt. Perhaps asking which females were of the same ability as Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards or Dylan your argument would have some more weight. It is not about being fair, we all know the reasons . Historically men are more creative. Full stop.
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 17:54:13 GMT 10
Of course they have you Gatherer you. ;D I was going to write something incredibly rude and decided I wasn't going to be baited by you, so I copied and pasted something I was reading about spacial ability. I scored very highly in it during my psychometric tests and the examiner said it was unusual for a woman to do so. I hit top 5% in numeracy and it suggested for a career I should go into IT. Great........... Yes my point exactly, it is unusual.
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Post by marysunshine on Jul 22, 2005 18:14:38 GMT 10
That's not fair in that Beethoven was composing in an era where women were not encouraged to compose music etc. Therefore you can only make comparisons of men versus women in the past 40 years at best, wherein women have at least had some form of encouragement to be musically inclined. And given that music of the past 40 years is utterly different to music 200 years ago, the comparison is not apt. Perhaps asking which females were of the same ability as Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards or Dylan your argument would have some more weight. It is not about being fair, we all know the reasons . Historically men are more creative. Full stop. I rather like that argument Babs, shows a cool logic. Historically if men have been more creative, historically women have been disadvantaged. You need to make up your mind about context to honest, rather than fair. I don't see why creativity has to manifest itself in the sciences and arts to be worthy. I for example, am very creative at working out what I can combine to make an interesting dinner out of a handful of ingredients. The mundane if you like. Yet the mundane is important for everyday survival. People often marvel at my simple skills. Men do. Of course I like most men so I marvel at their simple skills too. Like that heights thing. I don't foresee androgyny ever homogenising us. It would be a biological abhorrence, A spiritual one too.
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 18:19:07 GMT 10
Last time I looked nothing has changed a great deal Btw you forgot Poetry where women also excel.
This thread was designed to find if we had an honest woman out there. I have to admit I didn't expect much, even Bab's toadying was no surprise.
I give Mary and 4213 some credit though. ;D
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 18:20:47 GMT 10
It is not about being fair, we all know the reasons . Historically men are more creative. Full stop. I rather like that argument Babs, shows a cool logic. Historically if men have been more creative, historically women have been disadvantaged. You need to make up your mind about context to honest, rather than fair. I don't see why creativity has to manifest itself in the sciences and arts to be worthy. I for example, am very creative at working out what I can combine to make an interesting dinner out of a handful of ingredients. The mundane if you like. Yet the mundane is important for everyday survival. People often marvel at my simple skills. Men do. Of course I like most men so I marvel at their simple skills too. Like that heights thing. I don't foresee androgyny ever homogenising us. It would be a biological abhorrence, A spiritual one too. Men can cook too.
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 18:27:15 GMT 10
116. Men vs Women Experts vs. managers Why do women have a reputation for talking a lot? "Feminine intution" Myth: Women are more "right-brained" Myth: Women are more creative There is no question that women have been treated badly by men for thousands of years. Even after the idiocy of what men did in World War I, the supposedly enlightened (male) government of the United States still didn't consider women had enough intelligence to vote. This is especially ironic considering that voting was a judgment about the intelligence of male politicians! Evidence from neuropsychology, especially clinical evidence of what happens to people after strokes and brain injuries, gives fairly logical explantions about natural differences between talents of men and women. 1. Experts vs. Managers Why are women not more important in history as geniuses? The usual assumption is that women have not had access to education and have not had the opportunity to excel. However, there is a real difference in brain design -- women tend to have more balanced brains, whereas men tend to have more specialized brains. To understand this section, it is important to have read the previous section on "balanced" brains. A very important observation of stroke and injury victims is that "men who have had unilateral brain damage tend to show more profound deficits in functions associated with the side of lesion than do women with similar lesions." (Lezak 1983).
Translated this means that women tend to have less-specialized brains, with talents distributed over larger areas. For example, men tend to have language concentrated in the left brain, and may lose all language ability with a damaged left brain, whereas women have language talents spread over both hemispheres.
These observations are based on statistical averages of many people. Every person is different. Many women have very specialized brains and become experts, and many men have balanced brains and become good managers. However, the trend is strong. The following graph shows an overlap of talents, and you could be anywhere on the bell curve of the population.
These are only tendencies. Where do you fit? Men with more specialized brains Women with more balanced brains Advantages More likely to become geniuses and experts Better at managing, generalist thinking, and "intuitive" thinking (ie. aware of many aspects of a situation). Disadvantages More likely to become idiot savants, absent-minded, narrow minded, and be poor managers Less likely to excel as experts Careers where this tendency is a real advantage Musician, Craftsmen, Specialist in any field, and any career using spatial sense CEO, Manager, Supervisor, Mother, Nurse, Secretary, Lawyer, Cook, Teacher
Examples are easy to find.
Hospitals are really run by nurses. Specialist male doctors ask the generalist nurses what is happening with their patients. Secretaries are exceedingly important at keeping most organizations operating smoothly, thereby making the CEO and specialists successful. Most men do not seem very adept at being house-husbands, which involves keeping track of many things happening at the same time.
2. Why do women have a reputation for talking a lot?
Women have a reputation for talking because, on the average, more of the female brain is devoted to language. Of course, some men also have strong language areas, and may become teachers, lawyers, and writers, but the tendency is for women to have stronger language development.
In contrast, the right brains of men tend to be more like their animal ancestors, with skills useful for hunting and warfare ( talents needed today for driving their SUV through commuter traffic).
Often when couples get together, the women use their strong language and generalist skills to talk in the kitchen, prepare food, and manage the party, while the pack of men in the living room grunt and scream right-brain animal sounds as they watch someone make a goal on TV sports.
3. "Feminine Intuition"
Imagine a male in a specialist job, such as flying an airplane. This is a very right-brained job using lots of animal spatial-sense. A pilot needs many visual-spatial talents
Now imagine a more generalist woman as a pilot. She might not be as good as the male pilot at purely flying*, but her more generalist brain will more likely be thinking of of non-flying things as well, such as the care of the passengers. She may have noticed the behavior of some passenger who acted suspiciously, which makes her decide to radio for advice before some incident actually happens. She then gets praise for her "women's intution." Intuition, as a form of generalist thinking and awareness, can be very real and very useful. But do men listen?
. (*Amelia Earhart has been an icon of women pilots, but a biography I read described her as not a very good pilot or navigator, but overly promoted by her husband-manager so that she flew in unsafe situations. In any case, I believe that on the average, men tend to have stronger right-brain, animal-type, spatial talents then women, and tend to do better in jobs needing those talents.)
4. Myth: Women are more "right-brained"
A commonly voiced myth is that "women are more right-brained than men." This is wrong. The evidence from strokes and injuries shows that women have more language development over more areas of the brain, as described above. Because language is a left-brain specialty, women are actually more "left-brained" than men, on the average.
For example, the right-brain spatial area is usually devoted to the visual-spatial sense, which is important to animals for finding food, and for humans operating equipment, designing bridges, fixing car engines, and building houses. In contrast, with humans the left-brain spatial area has evolved to work with the sound patterns of language grammar. For women's brains to use more of the right-brain spatial area for grammar-spatial, they will tend to have less brain area devoted to visual-spatial. On average, men tend to be better drivers and women+ better talkers. Both are equally valuable.
Part of the right-brain myth includes the myth that "left-brained men are more militaristic" and thus cause wars. Yes, men cause almost all wars and military operations, but it is because men are so right-brained. War is mostly a right-brain operation -- flying airplanes, planning attack strategies, aiming guns, designing weapons, deciding who is the enemy, establishing territory, sneaking around the woods, and so on. Left-brained people talk about wars, write press releases, and analyze the logic of why people do crazy things like war.
5. Myth: Women are more creative
Another anti-male myth, related to the right-brain myth above, is that "women are more creative" than men. Creativity works on both sides of the brain, and has no relation to sexual differences. In fact, based on the idea that women have more language development at the expense of visual spatial sense, as described above, then, on the average, women are probably more creative in language topics, and men are more creative in visual topics such as art, architecture and engineering. See the creativity page for more information. ................................................................................
note last para, all in all this is a balanced view and denies superiority to either sex.
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Post by marysunshine on Jul 22, 2005 18:31:03 GMT 10
I rather like that argument Babs, shows a cool logic. Historically if men have been more creative, historically women have been disadvantaged. You need to make up your mind about context to honest, rather than fair. I don't see why creativity has to manifest itself in the sciences and arts to be worthy. I for example, am very creative at working out what I can combine to make an interesting dinner out of a handful of ingredients. The mundane if you like. Yet the mundane is important for everyday survival. People often marvel at my simple skills. Men do. Of course I like most men so I marvel at their simple skills too. Like that heights thing. I don't foresee androgyny ever homogenising us. It would be a biological abhorrence, A spiritual one too. Men can cook too. You're being obtuse. It's limiting sometimes. Open your mind and think beyond the text book. It's not about what all men can do and can't do. It's not even a battle of the sexes per se. It's about instinct and the abilities that the two genders as a group show strengths in. I'm sure many men cook but as a group women are often more creative in how they cook. No competition between the sexes. No need to trot out the names of male chefs. Just a simple observation. Women have a strength in this area.
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Post by marysunshine on Jul 22, 2005 18:33:33 GMT 10
To be fair men are pretty good at mixing and pouring drinks. Too good.
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Post by sirius on Jul 22, 2005 18:35:13 GMT 10
And with Mary having the last word I say goodbye. It has been fun to catch up.
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Meg
New Member
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Post by Meg on Jul 22, 2005 19:47:06 GMT 10
There's a clear distinction between the two definitions but the feeling is the same no matter how you word it. You do, after all, put in the hard yakka and the baby comes out of your body and was nourished by your body. It's like the feeling you have when you take pride in something you have created x 100. Margaret Meade (I think) theorised that is one reason why women have been historically less productive than men. One, that giving birth is so satisfying in that sense and because child rearing is so time consuming. You are getting warm as to the reason. Go back to the Cro Magnon days and think on the division of tasks. It all started there really. We will leave the monkeys out of it for the sake of peace. Women lack the desire that is why they don't create or design as much. Nature is gradually releasing the reins though, hence females like 4213 who do have the desire I feel. Meanwhile nature will continue it's course towards Androgeny, but separation will be around for a long time yet. Where better could you ask this question Meg than on a predominately female forum? It is fun to see the truth being evaded. Do women lack the courage to be honest? I know you've gone but I'll respond to this anyway for my own satisfaction. You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Before my comments about childbirth were irrelevant and now I'm supposedly close to the truth. Nature doesn't release the reins. Society does. Women have always wanted to do more because they are capable of doing more. As satisfying as giving birth can be, we still like to be acknowledged as being able to achieve other things. And besides, not all women have been content in the child-rearing role. History is littered with women who have rebelled against that concept. If you want the truth then you should stick to your male forum since females, by your admission, are incapable of it. You are a manipulative, patronising shit. I hope you don't come back. On second thoughts I hope you do so I can snub you. I note your male superiority didn't prevent you from joining the oldest female profession. Is that a step towards androgeny?
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Post by Social Worker on Jul 22, 2005 21:43:44 GMT 10
Shirley Mclain once wrote something like that men and children drained women of their creativity. So if you want to be a creative woman dont get married and dont have children.
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4213
New Member
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Post by 4213 on Jul 22, 2005 23:23:09 GMT 10
I agree with her.
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