My new Australian Idol podcast - Idol Sparks

[ifyouseekay]

babooshka said:

mary said:

When I think of Dylan I think of an arrogant troll full of his own self-importance.

Given his various attempts to make his music unmarketable so as to turn the adoring public away from him and to stop naming him as "the voice of the generation", I argue that you know little of Dylan the man.

just because you turn your back on everyone doesnt mean your making great music

[ganesha]

Dylan was only doing that back in the 1960's for Gods sakes. Since then he has done what he wants because he can and he no longer had to worry about the hype as he was no longer a major figure. He has never been one to follow a trend. I disagree that he really was trying to be unmarketable. It is more likely he was just out to piss of the folkies. HOWEVER, his sojourn into country was hardly unmarketable as country rock was huge in this era and they are amazing albums. You have not lived until you hear his unreleased demos with Johnny Cash. His latest three albums have been timeless classics that defy our modern approach to albums, hence the title. Again, unmarketable? Hmmm, didnt this album go to Number 1.

Unless you have listened and absorbed at least 10 of his albums then im afraid you wouldnt have a clue what this guy is about, your opinion is worthless. I say this because I was one of these people up to only 1 year ago. It took me forever to finally get what makes him the greatest. I now feel like i have enough information to formulate an opinion. Im not interested in hearing ignorent conversations about things people just dont understand.

[Test Card Girl]

ganesha said:

Unless you have listened and absorbed at least 10 of his albums then im afraid you wouldnt have a clue what this guy is about, your opinion is worthless. I say this because I was one of these people up to only 1 year ago. It took me forever to finally get what makes him the greatest. I now feel like i have enough information to formulate an opinion. Im not interested in hearing ignorent conversations about things people just dont understand.

Right on.
I'm still discovering more and more about his music. His last 3 albums have been a revelation to me. Up until recently I've only listened to his albums up to the mid-70s.

[4213]

ganesha said:

4213 said:

I was listening to the latest one yesterday at work, and wandered off half way through, and though oh hang on I'm listening to Ganesha and Kram. So I think the attention span was tested.

Now we know that Ganesha has the attention span of a goldfish, so he might take heed at this advice.

Keep up the good work, but consider your audiences' attention spans.

GIven the longer episodes have been the biggest downloads i think i will stick to what works. In fact we are growing every week and it appears the contestants have been listening in too. I would rather get my points across and take time with it. Im sick of everything being about hurrying. Like myself, i tend to go back and listen to podcasts more than once so it really doesnt bother me if people dont listen all the way through. The beauty of i-tunes is that it picks up from where you left off.

well that's good news then. Feedback is important both ways.

I like the recommendations btw. Krams voice reminds me of Julian Clary a little, I could listen to him all day. Actually you both have nice voices, which of course is important in a pod cast.

Still giggling over the bobby puppet. Can I suggest you do a farewell one, please.

[mary]

ganesha said:

Dylan was only doing that back in the 1960's for Gods sakes. Since then he has done what he wants because he can and he no longer had to worry about the hype as he was no longer a major figure. He has never been one to follow a trend. I disagree that he really was trying to be unmarketable. It is more likely he was just out to piss of the folkies. HOWEVER, his sojourn into country was hardly unmarketable as country rock was huge in this era and they are amazing albums. You have not lived until you hear his unreleased demos with Johnny Cash. His latest three albums have been timeless classics that defy our modern approach to albums, hence the title. Again, unmarketable? Hmmm, didnt this album go to Number 1.

Unless you have listened and absorbed at least 10 of his albums then im afraid you wouldnt have a clue what this guy is about, your opinion is worthless. I say this because I was one of these people up to only 1 year ago. It took me forever to finally get what makes him the greatest. I now feel like i have enough information to formulate an opinion. Im not interested in hearing ignorent conversations about things people just dont understand.

I don't agree with Babs 'take' on Dylan's motives or yours for that matter, however that whole last paragraph of yours (above) Ganesha is why I don't respect you as a musical scribe. I don't think Dylan would rate it either or want it to represent him, he'd probably rather squirm at me calling him self-important. Listen to yourself and you wonder why people might not want to give you the same courtesty to read your podcast. "It took me forever to finally get what makes him the greatest. I now feel like i have enough information to formulate an opinion. Im not interested in hearing ignorent conversations about things people just dont understand."

Prick.

[gem]

It's a bit like the Emperors New Clothes isn't it? You'd be afraid to say you don't like Dylan in case you reveal yourself as 'ignorant'. Isn't anyone allowed to have personal preferences without being judged a music philistine?

[ganesha]

gem said:

It's a bit like the Emperors New Clothes isn't it? You'd be afraid to say you don't like Dylan in case you reveal yourself as 'ignorant'. Isn't anyone allowed to have personal preferences without being judged a music philistine?

No i dont think so, in fact i think that is part of the problem we have with humans. I apply this rule to many aspects of my life. Because i dont believe you can have a valid opinion on most matters unless you have seen it from both sides, and you have taken time to source information and let it sink in. I have little opinion on heroin because all i have seen of it is what it has done to friends. I have never tried it and never want to, therefore i can never know what it means to be a person on heroin so i would never go making grand statements about it.
Peoples opinions are far too often based on such little actual knowledge it is incredible. Hence our fear of 'terror', or religions or philosophies other than our own. It is the great failing of our species - speaking passionately out of ignorence. Micro and macro are the same thing, so to apply it to music - i dont like jazz, i dont get it. You are not going to read a post where i am arguing on the merits or lack thereof on Miles Davis, because my dislike is based on my never taking the time to absorb it.

Why are you so damn afraid of this 'ignorent' word? Why be afraid of ignorence? I am ignorent of many many things, including subtlelty in forums! All i can truly say with conviction is - "i dont like Miles Davis, however given i have not taken the time to really take him in, my opinion is based on ignorence". Which is fine, its not high on my priority list. Why should anyone listen to what i have to say about Miles? We put far too much emphasis on peoples so called freedom of opinion. I think it is one of our worst qualities.

So to sum it up, if you believe you have listened to Bob Dylan, our specific example here. That you have done a bit of reading, know something about his career and the motives or catalysts behind hs greater works, that you have listened to albums from all his various incarnations, then i would love to hear what you think about them. I love a good discussion. But its annoying when people play the 'i am allowed an opinion' card, because personally i dont agree with that statement.

[gem]

Because art is subjective, that's why. Not everyone likes the same things. You don't need to know the background or listen to something over and over again. It's enough that you don't like it.

4213 doesn't like Vegemite. We Australians know that Vegemite is an acquired taste and you need to build up slowly and eat a lot of Vegemite sandwiches and Vegemite on toast along the way. But why should she persist if she doesn't like it? Where's the sense in it? Is she 'ignorant' if she doesn't learn to like Vegemite?

Heroin and Bob Dylan aren't comparable. One is a musician and the other a social problem. For a comparison to be valid it has to be between similiar things. And the same goes with philosophies and religions. Bob Dylan is neither of those.

So sorry Ganesha, when it comes to art, I am allowed to have an opinion. I am allowed to like some music and dislike others. I am allowed to have personal preferences. And my opinion is as valid as yours.

[ganesha]

That may be the case sometimes, but my experiences with art and music have contradicted what you say for this reason. I didnt like Bob Dylan up until a year ago, before that i didnt like him at all. So if i saw things in such a final way as you i would have forever missed out on something that now gives me great pleasure. How does you theory fit in this case, because Gem, i could easily say that 70% of the art and music i love at this moment began with me disliking it. Bartok, opera, Turner, books on history, Sinatra, all these things i once disliked like vegemite before i decided to challenge my own opinions!

The single important difference between what you are saying and what i am saying is that i prefer to keep my eyes, ears and mind open to possibly discounting any and all of my oh so important opinions on a subject. Opinion is fluid, not sealed in stone.

If its "enough for you" to go look at a painting or listen to a song on the radio and go -"nah, dont like it, end of story", then im sorry for you. That you could be missing something that could later change your life based on that opinion is just depressing to me.

[gem]

Does it occur to you that music is not everyone's passion and that they might prefer to put time into other things? That they are not actually missing out because it's not really their thing to begin with? My passion could be the study of animal droppings. For all you know it could be a fascinating subject that could enhance your life considerably. I feel sorry for you if you never discover how rewarding animal droppings can be.

If you are going to like something the seed is there, if not at the time, then later on. What point in forcing yourself into pursuing something if the interest isn't there in the first place? I love books on history, dislike opera but like some classical music, like Sinatra, and Turner is an OK painter (but the visual arts aren't of particular interest to me). When I was exposed to these, I immediately liked them (or at least, didn't mind them) and learned more according to how interested I was. Therefore, I have several books on history (especially) animal behaviour, science, social history and movies. And I have some classical cds too and you'll also find some Sinatra. To someone else, all this could be boring. I'm not so arrogant as to say that they are missing out. It is simply not to their taste. I can't begin to express how annoyed I was when I told someone that I don't like poetry and they said 'what a shame, you're missing out'. On what? On something I don't like?

Another person who is annoying me at the moment on another forum is someone who keeps on telling me that I am denying the 'Truth' (note truth with a capital 'T'). 'Truth' for him is not necessarily 'Truth' for me, but try telling that to someone who is convinced he is right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

And no one said that opinion is not fluid. I used to dislike wine but now I don't mind some wines. For some, wine is one of the great pleasures of life and they can talk and analyse it for hours. It even has its own form of snobbery. But I can't say that my life is any better for acquiring something of a taste for the stuff. I was just as happy not liking wine. But my opinion of wine has always been valid, when I didn't like it and when I did.

So keep your pity for yourself. I'm not you and what works for you, doesn't necessarily work for me.

[ganesha]

We all like whine once in a while.

Animal droppings are fascinating, i have had my hands in it most of today actually.

As far as im concerned, the concept of defining myself on my likes and dislikes is pretty low on the scale of importance. I say roll the dice and if its a 5, then im a painter that day, a four and im an asshole all day.




That damn 4 keeps popping up lately.

[4213]

what does a 6 make you?

[ganesha]

4213 said:

what does a 6 make you?

A beast.

[4213]

that's three sixes. A little creature maybe?

How did I get involved in an anology Gem?

The vegimite thing and me just didn't work out. It wasn't him it was me.

[PollyE]

ganesha said:

All i can truly say with conviction is - "i dont like Miles Davis, however given i have not taken the time to really take him in, my opinion is based on ignorence". Which is fine, its not high on my priority list. Why should anyone listen to what i have to say about Miles?

Heresy!

You must go and procure yourself Kind of Blue and Sketches of Spain.

It's the hip new thing.